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Sister, aka firstname.lastname@example.org, replied three times to the Charles Eimers death part of yesterday’s uplifting Key West’s psychiatrist emeritus advises fun, rest and fresh air, to get out of our convoluted messes, and I told him I would pass his prescription along to the angels, and the angels laughed and said to write today about canned health food for the masses, which they could use to get themselves out of their convoluted messes post at www.goodmorningkeywest.com:
1) There is no proof at this point that he died from asphyxiation.
There is proof however that he died from heart failure…unless you can prove that the medical examiner is a moron and/or liar, and are able to perform another autopsy.
Taser International cautions to not tase in the heart area as it can cause heart failure.
There have been many instances of young healthy people being tased in the heart area and dying from heart failure.
There were multiple witnesses who claim that they witnessed Charles being tased.
It states on the fire/rescue log that “he was tased”. I’m not buying the bs about how the dude meant “taser point”.
Just because the medical examiner states the ‘his’ autopsy showed no signs of taser use doesn’t mean there were none.
Ms. Wanciak’s testimony practically screams that Lovette tased him.
So, tell me Oh Great Sloan…how would you convince a jury that he died from asphyxiation?
2) Also Sloan, the encroaching police state and genocide people of the world are faced with today is AN EMERGENCY SITUATION! Charles Eimers’ murder is just a piece of that bigger puzzle. But I guess you are too enlightened to see that.
3) Sorry, I just reread the part where you explained how you would use the bystander video of the actual account and a reenactment video of what you ‘imagine’ happened. Neither one of those two videos prove asphyxiation…in my harsh, judgemental know-nothing opinion.
Do you have an extra binky Sloan? I seem to have lost mine.
Good Morning Sister/Hanna Belle,
As I recall the Medical Examiner’s autopsy, Eimers suffered brain death due to lack of oxygen, but the M.E. assigned that to Eimers’ diseased heart failing under the rigor of the arrest. I know from talking with Naja and Arnaud Girard before they did the reenactment video, as did I already hold the same view, that just as easily, Eimers could have smothered to death, and that stopped his heart and blood and oxygen flow out of it. Naja and Arnaud’s subsequent video reenactment convinced me Eimers smothered. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement not doing a reenactment convinced me they were concerned a reenactment would suggest asphyxiation, and that would not bode well for the police officers they were trying to protect, who were on top of Eimers. The State Attorney had the same concerns and reasons for not doing a reenactment for the Grand Jury. That’s how I would go at it, if I were trying the civil case in federal court. And there is another reason I would go at it that way, which is I am convinced Eimers did smother to death under the cops, and to argue a different cause of death to a jury would be me lying to the jury.
I also still am of the view that your theory of trying to win, and that’s what we are talking about, is trying to win the case, will give the jury the same out the M.E., FDLE and the State Attorney took. Whether or not a taser was fired into Eimers, the jury still would have to consider Eimers’ heart, which for a fact was seriously diseased and could have failed at any moment, even when he was asleep, or driving his car, or sitting in a lounge chair on South Beach, could have failed under the rigor of the arrest; whereas a person with a good heart probably would not have died under the rigor of the arrest. Or, the jury just cannot make up its mind as to cause of death, so it comes back with a defendant’s verdict due to insufficient proof that the cops killed Eimers.
The jury will make that call, not you, not me, not the Horan law firm.
That’s also the problem with what I am convinced happened. A jury could well ignore the reenactment, which I found compelling as to cause of death, and blame the death on Eimers’ diseased heart failing under the rigor of the arrest. Or, the jury just cannot make up its mind as to cause of death, so it comes back with a defendant’s verdict due to insufficient proof that the cops killed Eimers.
All of which assumes the judge does not throw the case out of court, and the Horan law firm is allowed to try to prove the cops killed Eimers.
As for Officer Gary Lee Lovette, I think there is abundant evidence, out of his own mouth, that he used excessive force on Eimers. I think there is abundant evidence that Lovette thought Eimers was homeless and Lovette had it in for Eimers, because Lovette hated homeless people. And I think a case could made against Lovette that he hit Eimers in the back of the head with the intent to kill him. And if Lovette also tased Eimers, that he tased him with the intent also to kill him. And, I think the jury also will be looking at a heart that could have gone out when Eimers was sleeping, driving his car, sitting in a lounge chair on South Beach.
The law professors at the University of Alabama School of Law drilled into us the hazards of litigation, the vagaries of juries, and even of judges. The law professors strongly encouraged us not to promise our clients how litigation would turn out, because if we promised victory, and there was no victory, we could be sued for malpractice, false representation, etc. When I later practiced law, I saw just what good advice our law professors had given us.
I personally don’t see a jury coming back with a verdict against the police officers in any kind of case. I think a jury will latch onto and never let go of the diseased heart, which could have gone out at any moment, even while Eimers was asleep, or driving his car somewhere, or sitting in a lounge chair at South Beach. I just don’t see a jury getting around that diseased heart, which could have gone out at any moment. I hope I’m mistaken, of course.
For some time now, I have said I see America becoming a police state by and by. Have you considered moving to Montana and living in a militia community who are geared up to defending themselves from what they see as the coming police state? It’s not something I worry about. My worries are immediate, daily.
Such as, how to respond to your various assaults in a way God and the angels are okay with. Such as, just getting through each day under the huge spirit and physical load I carry. You will not enlist me, Sister Hanna Belle, to wage your wars. Those are your wars to wage. And since you continue to write as if the Eimers case is crucial to how you see the greater war turning out, I continue to say you should be physically on the front lines down here, with your name, rank and serial number in plain view.
Sister Hanna Belle replied:
I would argue Excessive VIOLENCE and argue ALL the contributing factors.
Violence is an action against a victim; force is an action to quell the violent act. Passivity breeds violence; force regulates violence.” ~~ H.S. Gunnie Reagan, Ph.D., D.D.
Ps…that wasn’t very bright of you to broadcast that Naja’s husband and son were out of town…your unchecked verbiage could have consequences.
Everything I do has consequences.
[Here's a link Arnaud and Naja's most recent Eimers-death article, Officer Gary Lee Lovette: “Me, I Dropped Like a F***ing Bomb On His Head… We Killed Him” , which contains links to all their prior Eimers-death articles and the bystander's video of the arrest and Naja and Arnaud's video of the reenactment; and here's their editorial view of what happened:]
Moving laterally …
Jerry Weinstock, M.D., Psychiatry, semi-retired, responded to yesterday’s uplifting post at www.goodmorningkeywest.com:
Sloan : reading Hemingway’s fishing stories
reminds me of my own similar adventures over the last
8 decades or so. Better than canned health anything–
recollection can be magic —and that kind of joy –should stimulate all of us to live this one life we have..we need to sandwich pleasure between all the tough stuff, and losses that come along.
it is the truth—-Jerry
Count your good fortune, Jerry, to have such a life to live. Hemingway was a serious addict, and his fishing stories had terrible endings; the Old Man and the Sea was his subconscious suicide note; he was tormented by demons, but he did go whole hog, and when he knew his choice was an asylum and madness, or taking himself out, he took what I have always felt was the path he had lived and written in his books – grace under fire, instead of whatever else could be chosen.
Sloan: The psychiatrist that I first went into
private practice with—-(at his invitation)
when I finished residency training was
Ernest’s Doctor at the Mayo Clinic. I can
relate what isn’t confidential, and give some background that isn’t readily available. His favorite fishing streams (when he was young) were all around Donna’s hometown in the upper peninsula—Donna and I fished many of them together–a long time ago. There is a lot I know that isn’t readily available if at all—-Charles Thompson’s son was a very close friend of mine.
another avenue of insight —-Pat Hemingway lived where we fished in Montana –we had lunch together. a long life has much in it –Jerry
I’m sure a great deal about Ernest was not told. I learned a lot about him by reading Carlos Baker’s Ernest Hemingway biography, and later Baker’s compilation a heap of Ernest’s handwritten letters, which people had saved. In one letter, to Maxwell Perkins, Ernest’s Editor at Scribner & Sons, Ernest went on a tear to Perkins, expressing his outrage that people were reading symbolism into The Old Man and the Sea. Ernest wrote something to Perkins like, The old man was an old man, the boy was a boy, the fish was a fish, the sea was the sea, that’s all there was to it. I think I read that Baker book around 1970, after reading the first Baker book, the biography, when I was in law school. I thought when I read the letter to Perkins that Hemingway had protested too much. After finishing the book of Hemingway’s letters, I told my wife that I had concluded Hemingway was a total ass hole. Before reading that book, I was smitten by Hemingway. I still think he was a terrific novelist. I read To Have and to Have Not for the first time a few months ago – checked it out the county library. If there ever was a fishing stories indictment of Key West’s strain of humanity and society, that grim novel was it.
you have done your homework—–there is definitely less symbolism intended by Hemingway—-the truth is closer to his love of fishing and nature–the waters the
fish swim in –those were his loves.
Am reminded of the heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing. In my long bizarre wending journey, I learned the subconscious, or the soul, often uses the same words, pauses, and silences to say something entirely different from what the mind thinks it is saying. Hemingway indeed did love fishing, and hunting, and drinking, and talking with people he liked, and toying with people he didn’t like. During a novels course my senior year at Vanderbilt, the professor said the way to tell who’s going to end up being the bad guy in Hemingway’s novels is the guy who does not drink. The professor had his own take on the symbolism in The Old Man and the Sea, which I fed back to him verbatim on the final, and aced it and the course, and was astounded by that. The angels, many years later, gave me their view of the symbolism in the last novel Hemingway would complete. Bottom line, it was his subconscious suicide note.
Moving laterally, I bet Ernest Hemingway, who was educated the old-fashioned way, and who became a world-renown novelist the old-fashioned way, by going out and getting roughed up and excited by life, and then writing from that very deep well of experience, would agree plenty with this forward from Nashville J yesterday; and I bet Ernest would bristle plenty over standardized testing of school children, as described in the Citizen – www.keysnews.com – article following Nashville J’s gung-ho-for-going-to-college-not forward:
Robert Reich: College is a ludicrous waste of money
The former secretary of labor on our broken higher ed model and how we can open more gateways to the middle class
ROBERT REICH, ROBERTREICH.ORG Follow
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TOPICS: ROBERTREICH.ORG, COLLEGE, EDUCATION, HIGHER EDUCATION, UNIVERSITY, IVY LEAGUES, BUSINESS NEWS, POLITICS NEWS
Robert Reich: College is a ludicrous waste of money
This originally appeared on Robert Reich’s blog.
This week, millions of young people head to college and universities, aiming for a four-year liberal arts degree. They assume that degree is the only gateway to the American middle class.
It shouldn’t be.
For one thing, a four-year liberal arts degree is hugely expensive. Too many young people graduate laden with debts that take years if not decades to pay off.
And too many of them can’t find good jobs when they graduate, in any event. So they have to settle for jobs that don’t require four years of college. They end up overqualified for the work they do, and underwhelmed by it.
Others drop out of college because they’re either unprepared or unsuited for a four-year liberal arts curriculum. When they leave, they feel like failures.
We need to open other gateways to the middle class.
Consider, for example, technician jobs. They don’t require a four-year degree. But they do require mastery over a domain of technical knowledge, which can usually be obtained in two years.
Technician jobs are growing in importance. As digital equipment replaces the jobs of routine workers and lower-level professionals, technicians are needed to install, monitor, repair, test, and upgrade all the equipment.
Hospital technicians are needed to monitor ever more complex equipment that now fills medical centers; office technicians, to fix the hardware and software responsible for much of the work that used to be done by secretaries and clerks.
Automobile technicians are in demand to repair the software that now powers our cars; manufacturing technicians, to upgrade the numerically controlled machines and 3-D printers that have replaced assembly lines; laboratory technicians, to install and test complex equipment for measuring results; telecommunications technicians, to install, upgrade, and repair the digital systems linking us to one another.
Technology is changing so fast that knowledge about specifics can quickly become obsolete. That’s why so much of what technicians learn is on the job.
But to be an effective on-the-job learner, technicians need basic knowledge of software and engineering, along the domain where the technology is applied – hospitals, offices, automobiles, manufacturing, laboratories, telecommunications, and so forth.
Yet America isn’t educating the technicians we need. As our aspirations increasingly focus on four-year college degrees, we’ve allowed vocational and technical education to be downgraded and denigrated.
Thursday, September 4, 2014 Opting out of state testing?
BY TERRY SCHMIDA Citizen Staff
A group of parents concerned about standardized testing will screen tonight the documentary film “Standardized,” a warts-and-all look at the effects of standardized testing on students, their grades and school districts. The screening is at 6 p.m. at Coral Shores High School.
It’s a hot topic at the moment. Last week, Lee County on Florida’s west coast voted to “opt out” of the mandatory Florida State Standard Test that will be administered at the end of the school year. The Lee County district, which has a student population of 87,000, cannot legally refuse to administer the test, and has since rescinded its vote, but the fact that the vote took place at all points to a deeper malaise for standardized testing at many levels of society — including educators and those charged with formulating education policies.
At the last Monroe County School Board meeting, the subject generated considerable interest among board members, though it would be a misnomer to call their discussion a “debate.” To a man, all present, including Superintendent Mark Porter, agreed that the standardized bandwagon may have stretched the limits of public tolerance.
The subject will be discussed at the Sept. 9 board meeting in Tavernier.
While standardized testing isn’t popular among board members, figuring out what to do about it is another matter.
“I don’t think any of us are considering opting out but I think all of us want to de-emphasize Florida standard testing until Tallahassee gets their act together,” said District 1 member Robin Smith-Martin. “We don’t know what test they’ll be taking at the end of the year because we haven’t been presented with a sample copy yet. It’s being put together in Utah, which doesn’t reflect the culture of South Florida and the Keys.
“I believe in tying staff performance to their pay,” said Smith-Martin. “But having 50 percent of their evaluation tied to standardized testing is a poor reflection of their teaching ability, and illegitimate because it [the test] doesn’t even exist yet.”
Smith-Martin is hoping that following the governor’s election in November, some meaningful change will take place.
“At that point, we need to press for stronger educational leadership,” he said. “We need leadership in Tallahassee that’s based on the needs of students and not the needs of profit-seeking charter and testing corporations. As a community, we need to identify our own goals for our students, rather than the goals of Tallahassee. It’s going to have to involve a disciplined communications campaign to tell the public that we don’t have faith in the current testing regime. We want the public not to worry or stress out. We will work with everybody until we have a proper test in place.”
Board Chairman Ron Martin has seen the film “Standardized.” While he doesn’t agree with some of the more controversial suggestions made in the film, he thinks it’s a good starting place for a debate that needs to take place.
“We need to look at this issue very closely,” Martin said. “I’m not a proponent of opting out, and I don’t agree 100 percent with the film. You can’t break state law. Lee County took a leap, but didn’t have a plan in place to replace the standardized test.
“However, I think that a lot of legislators are seeing the movement. Parts of the film are very controversial, and there’s a political lean to some of the ideas in there. But overall it’s trying to address the fact that we as a district, state and country, we’ve gone off on a tangent with standardized testing since No Child Left Behind. We need to step back and at least take a year to look into this, and there are a lot of things that need to be looked into. We need to try to eliminate some of the testing we don’t need, and replace them with portfolio assessments or project-based grades.”
For those parents who wish to see “Standardized” but can’t make the drive to Coral Shores, Martin said student parent groups are working at bringing it to Key West and Marathon.
One interested individual who won’t be able to attend is Superintendent Porter. The issues the film raises are never far from his thoughts, however.
“There’s a lot of unknowns with the Florida State Standard Test,” Porter said Wednesday. “There’s no doubt that we have swung a little too far to the standardized testing format, and perhaps overlooked other methods of evaluating students. As is always the case, extremes are not the right answer, and I don’t think anybody wants us to try to opt out. We’ll be talking about the issue … and the answer, as it usually does, will land somewhere in the middle.”
For information about the film screening, call 586-746-6418.
When, in 2012, I, aka The Fool on Little Torch, ran for the school board seat won by Capt. Ed Davidson, I was the only candidate who harped and harped and harped against the FCAT standardized test and on the schools providing vocational training and having high school graduates ready to go to work and have a life regardless of whether they went off to college. I also harped and harped and harped on all Florida Keys students being fluent in touch typing and English and Spanish by the time they entered middle school.
My father persuaded me to take typing in high school, he said it would come in handy later. I sometimes have wondered if he ever regretted making that suggestion? :-).
My younger daughter persuaded me of the value of American school children being fluent in English and Spanish, when she majored in Spanish at Bryn Mawr, which is about like attending Harvard, if you are female. Later, she returned to college, got her science courses under her belt, applied to medical school, was accepted, did that, did her internship, did residences in ophthalmology, opened her own medical practice, including advanced eye surgery, and taught ophthalmology in medical school.
Her older sister, also a Brym Mawr graduate, after some runs at being a wage earner, got married, had kids, got involved in charitable causes, being a mom and wife – her husband is Mississippi State University’s head baseball coach. His father was one of my favorite law professors.
Once my older daughter told me of receiving a survey from Bryn Mawr sent to its graduates, asking for their field of endeavor: a long list of endeavors followed, for one to be checked. Bryn Mawr intended to use the survey results to tout how well and important its women graduates were. Seeing no mention of her fields of endeavor, my daughter told me she sent the survey back to Bryn Mawr with a note to the effect of where they could stick their survey, and not to expect any financial support from her. I split my sides laughing, said it was a perfect response!
I have a college degree, two law degrees, and a massage therapy degree, and considerable training in various psychospiritual healing methods, and I ended up living on the street, where I learned more about Key West than I ever wanted to know. Stuff I never would have learned, if I had not lived on the street here. It wasn’t a whole lot of fun, nor were the Key West police a whole lot of fun. However, it might have provided terrific fodder for a book. Or did I already write it? Is it called GOODMORNINGKEYWEST.COM – the Truth Is Stranger Than Fiction? Today’s post at that website is the 2,602th installment in that seemingly never-ending saga.