Just so happens, as I keep writing and it seems to keep bouncing off your head, Jesus is on my Editorial Board, who (the lot of them) like Fantasy Fest the way it is, proving once again that Puritans and other uptight self-righteous Christendom sects don’t know shit from shinola about much beyond their own self-elevated tiny navels.
What my Editorial Board, on which Jesus sits, doesn’t like, however, are the degenerate businesses on and just off Duval Street. Nor do my Editorial Board, on which Jesus sits, like Key West being the international poster city for public drunkeness, rampant street drug use and sex-trafficking, none of which in God we trust capitalist endeavors have I seen or heard of you, in your almighty great righteousness and grave Christian concern for your brothers and sisters, make even a peep of protest, much less put your own carcass on the line.
Well I really hate being the bearer of bad news but if you think Jesus has told you that he approves the debuachery that FF has become, you ain’t hearing from God and you ought be very careful listening to those spirits! If you ever hear a voice that contradicts the Bible you are hearing from the dark side and extreme caution is needed! Much evil has been done by charismatic leaders who claim they are hearing from God. And this goes for tv evangelists as well. I am certain God never told Oral Roberts that he would die unless he raised certain monetary goals. Bottom line is although much of what you “hear” is good and truthful, if you think God approves of the extremes of FF you are at that point hearing not from God but from demons. But you are correct in your last paragraph about other evils in Key West that should also be addressed.
I hear voices which contradict Jesus in the Bible all the time, Tim, and they come out of the mouths of Christians. I’m not going to argue with you, though, about how Jesus feels about Fantasy Fest. I’m going to let him tell you in his own way and time, since it was you who wrote, “you surely cannot believe that Jesus would approve of public nudity do you?”
Instead, you line up with Harry Bethel, a known war monger, who nearly blew a head gasket during that 2002 city commission meeting, when Mayor Jimmy Weekley cast the tie-breaking vote to pass a resolution saying Key West did want USA to go to war in Iraq without UN backing. I wager Harry is a good Christian, as were about half of the audience that night, who also nearly blew head gaskets over that vote, and even over the resolution being on the commission’s agenda that night.
Sloan, are you engaging in a logical fallacy here. What Bethel wrote aout FF cannot be judged by who he is or his position on other issues. Kind of the reverse of the logical fallacy called “arguing to authority.”
Fair enough. What Bethel wrote about FF was his opinion of it. An opinion shared by you. I don’t recall Bethel dragged the Bible or Jesus into it, but since you did that for him, and since you and Bethel want the city government to yield to your demand to abolish nudity from FF, and since your and Bethel’s demand comes from your and his view of the Bible, the city cannot yield to your and Bethel’s demand, because to yield would violate separation of church and state, which would violate the First Amendment of the United State’s Constitution.
Traitors, they called the rest of us. They should have pointed the traitor finger at themselves, and at their beloved demonic-possessed Christian President, G.W. Bush. If they were followers of Jesus, they would have booed Harry Bethel out of the commission meeting hall that night. If Harry was a follower of Jesus, he would have called for a resolution that night nominating Jimmy Weekley for the Nobel Peace Prize.
I have heard Pastor Omar give many Sunday sermons at Higgs Beach. I have eaten many of his breakfasts, which he got up maybe around 4 a.m. each Sunday morning to prepare from scratch for hungry homeless people, whom he served at the kiosks now reserved only for mainstream children and accompanying adults.
Yes he continues to get up (he told me it is 4:30 a.m.) and I know that he really loves these people, as you do also and as I try to. Like I said my heart thrilled me to hear them listening to Omar so intently.
It’s been years since I heard one of Omar’s sermons. Except for one he gave in November 2003, which was about commitment, moving forward and holding fast to going into the new, his sermons mostly sounded the same to me. Boiler plate. His listeners often seemed deeply moved, but they did not seem to change. Nor did Omar seem to change. I tried to speak with him a few times, but his cup was full. I don’t know what his sermons are like now.
The good city of Key West took Pastor Omar’s Sunday morning beachside ministry away from him, maybe now he has it back, because the good city didn’t want homeless people out there on Sunday morning hearing his sermons, during many of which he confessed he himself once was homeless and God lifted him out of it, the same thing I told Harry Bethel and the other city commissioners and Mayor Weekey quite a few times during citizen comments – Only God can change street people.
As much as I believe in God and want all to know Him I believe that many street people given their own determination and perhaps with guidance can change their lives even absent God.
I’d love to see you move that belief into you producing street people who, without God’s help, but only through their own determination and perhaps guidance from you, actually change their lives.
Often I heard Omar tell his listeners, if only we would accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, we would stop being homeless. Far as I could tell, we already had done that, some of us several times, except for on Jewish man, Frisbee Dave. Much the same spiel, in that regard, we heard on Sunday afternoons across the road, when Glad Tidings fed us.
If he said this it was certainly an over-generalization. But I believe that some homeless can indeed change their lives with or without God but God certainly helps.
It was not an over-generalization, it was simply not true; Glad Tidings preached the same untruth and I grew weary of it and started letting them have it in front of everyone present. I told Omar privately he was mistaken, and was unable to reach him.
Of ministers I have known in Key West, Omar and Steve Braddock are the closest, whom I have met and gotten to know, who are born again in the sense Jesus meant when he told Peter he would have to be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. I have not met anyone at your church, Glad Tidings, who struck me as being born again in the sense Jesus meant when he said that to Peter.
Agree that both are great people serving the Lord by serving others. Re Glad Tidings remember the admonition to be careful about judging. The Sunday School Superintendent for instance has spent years treaching the Bible to young people. I believe that Christian parents who raise godly children are doing God’s will as well. Should all also be reaching out to those less fortunate? Yes no doubt and many will when GT reinstitutes its “soup kithchen” in January.
Did not you recently write to me that Christians, who are not born again, do not die and go to heaven, but burn in hell forever?
I hope Glad Tidings reinstitutes its soup kitchen, but why wait on that? Anyone can reach out to homeless people in Key West. They are easy enough to find around Key West.
I spoke with two homeless men today at the county library. I did not tell them, if they accepted Jesus as Lord, they would no longer be homeless. I did tell them, that when I was in the Florida Keys Outreach Coalition program in 2003, Jesus and Archangel Michael applied the 12 Steps to me, and it was terrible, and it seemed, based on what I heard said in 12 Step meetings, that I was the only person in the meetings who actually was living the 12 Steps.
I told the two homeless men that Bob and Bill, who had started AA, were taken over by God. The first 3 steps, in the old days, were about that. I described the first 3 Steps in this way, which is not verbatim:
1. I’m insane.
2. There’s nothing I can do it.
3. If God doesn’t take me over, I’m a gonner.
I said, the rest of the Steps are ornaments on the tree, the first 3 steps are the tree.
I said, later, God was changed to “Higher Power” because so many people reacted to the word, God. I said, 12 Step programs today are nothing like what Bob and Bill used and shared with others.
I said, in the 12 Steps, and in Bill and Bob’s stories, God was their sponsor. There were no human sponsors.
I said, going to 12 Step meetings and getting up and talking is not doing the 12 Steps.
I said, after Jesus and Archangel Michael abducted me in early 1987, they did many things to me, and being homeless was not nearly as terrible as other things they did to me.
I had gone to the library to meet up with one of the homeless men, whom I met about a week ago, after he was shaken down by a Key West cop next to the cemetery because he was carrying a small backpack, what I call a daypack. I had reported some of my time with him, and some of his roughing up by KW cops, at goodmorningkeywest.com. I had not seen him since our first encounter. I had offered to give him a bus ticket out of the Keys and some traveling money, and we needed to meet face to face.
So, we met at the county library. After hearing how it was going for him, and that he did not really want to leave Key West just yet, I said I felt the best thing for him was to get into Florida Keys Outreach Coalition’s program. It would get him off the street, but he would have to go by their rules, including getting a job, doing chores in the shelter, getting in by a certain time at night and out by a certain time in the morning, having clean urine, and attending 12 Step meetings, even if he was not an addict.
The other homeless man showed up in the middle of all of that. He knew the man I was trying to help and said he mostly stayed at KOTS at night, but sometimes on a friend’s boat anchored off Key West. We three talked about a bunch of things besides the above. A third homeless man then came along and asked the second homeless man to go have a beer with him. The second homeless man said okay and got up and left with the third homeless man.
I just looked up the born again passage, in The Gospel of John. My mistake, it was to Nicodemus, not to Peter, Jesus said, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God. We disagree, Tim, on what born again means. I say Peter is an example of someone who was born again in the sense Jesus meant.
…2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”…
Glad Tiding’s current pastor, John Carey, certainly was arrested by God and turned in a new direction, but John is hardly born again in the sense Peter became. Nor, for that matter, is Omar. Nor, is Steve. But, as I said, they are the closet thing to Peter I have seen in Key West, except for Dorothy Sherman, who started the soup kitchen and became a living Saint – born again in the true sense.
Personally, I could care less if there ever is another Fantasy Fest. It doesn’t do shit for me, but it is really important to a whole lot of people, based on the crowds it draws on Duval Street. Probably bigger crowds than all the churches in Key West combined draw in a year’s time. And nowhere close, Tim, to the degeneration Key West allows to go on day and night, week after week, month after month, year after year, on and just off Duval Street.
Well I agree with your last statement but that does not mean that Fantasy Fest should not be cleaned up at least a bit.
Well, Christ-ine, it’s now just past 3 a.m. Christ-mas morning. Can’t say I’m surprised I’m up and at my laptop. It’s just another day for me. It’s always just another day for me.
As the homeless man Jesus told someone in the Gospels, take no thought for tomorrow, for each day has enough trouble of its own.
As he also said in the Gospels, when people pray, they should pray, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth … Nothing in that prayer about dying and going to heaven. That prayer is about bringing heaven down to earth.
I’m going back to bed and try to get more sleep and give the angels a chance to tell me in a dream how they feel about all of this above, before I dare to send it to you. Hope you are having a peaceful night’s sleep.
Well, I did get back to sleep, in three installments, increasingly sweeter, or at least nicer.
First, adding to what Jesus said about living each day, I thought, because each day has enough surprise and wonder of its own, which thought brought a wonder vs. belief pic to mind, which I will use in today’s post.
Second, since as I understand Tim, people like you and me will die and go to hell and burn there forever, I supposed we ought to try and have as much fun as possible during out remaining days on this world.
Third, I spaced out telling Tim that I told the two homeless men at the library yesterday, that I was the reason KOTS got built in the first place, back in 2004, because I, a former practicing lawyer who once had been a law clerk for a United States District Judge, had convinced the Key West city officials that, if they kept arresting homeless people for sleeping outside at night, without providing them a place to sleep at night, I was going to sue them in Key West’s Federal Court under the Pottinger case, which was decided in a Federal Court against Miami, which was doing the came thing to its homeless people that Key West later started doing to its homeless people. Miami lost that case and thereafter a Federal Judge was the boss of Miami on all things homeless, which was about the same as having 100 mother-in-laws come to visit you and they never leave. Miami and Key West were, and still are, in the same U.S. District Court District.
Fourth, that’s the same Federal Court in Key West, where the city could be sued for tampering with Fantasy Fest because Christians, who don’t seem to me to have a clue what born again means, want the city to tamper with Fantasy Fest.
Fifth, other fun things seemed to be in the making, but to guess what they might be would be just that – guessing.